WikEmacs - User contributions [en]

Talk:Main Page

2013-06-03T15:19:55Z

Ciaran: /* Which emacswiki.org topics to work on? */ search engines, page edits, and alexa.com

== IMPORTANT: Offline discussion ==

There is a Google group for discussion of the site: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/wikemacs so we should probably favor posting there. [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 16:16, 26 March 2012 (EEST)

== IMPORTANT: Content Quality guidelines ==
I think before flame wars and fights among members, we should form
proper/strict guide lines for each aspect of the site. [http://depuypinnaclelawsuit.webnode.com/ DePuy Pinnacle Lawsuit] Wikipedia has very strict
rules about that., even their bots can tell the content quality of a
page. we can create articles in "WikEmacs" Namespace. [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 23:57, 1 April 2012 (EEST)

:Wikipedia has lots of rules today, but it started with very few rules and they invented the rules as they became necessary. It's impossible to predict what problems will be encountered. I'd suggest that rules only be made when it becomes clear that one is necessary. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] 15:24, 29 January 2013 (EET)

== Structure ==
I would like to structure the Main Page in boxes like here [http://www.webos-internals.org] the Featured Article/Project. Any objections?
And maybe [[User:Bozhidar]] should write some lines about the relation to the "old" EmacsWiki?--[[User:Kenda|Kenda]] 19:58, 24 March 2012 (EET)

This seems like a good idea. Might help us utilize better the screen estate. As for the relation to the EmacsWiki - it is more or less non-existing. We have the permission from Alex (kensanata) to migrate any content we choose to, but they won't be supporting us in any way. [[User:Bozhidar|Bozhidar]] 20:28, 26 March 2012 (EEST)

== Markup Conventions==

=== Wikipedia linking convention ===

Could/should we have a convention for formatting and placement of wikipedia links on pages? [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 22:37, 24 March 2012 (EET)

=== EmacsWiki linking convention ===

Similar question to Wikipedia wrt EmacsWiki [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 23:06, 24 March 2012 (EET)

== Describing Modes and Packages ==

=== Naming Conventions ===

I'd like to suggest *not* suffixing (links to) modes with "-mode". Thus: "org" not "org-mode". For consistency I've been adding links titled "org-mode" until now, since that one was already created when I started. [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 22:09, 24 March 2012 (EET)

:Agreed, let's use the "friendly" name of a package. I'd say "Org", "Gnus", "YASnippet", etc. [[User:GregLucas|GregLucas]]

:I actually disagree. E.g. [[Java]] could be a page describing the different Java capabilities of Emacs, with links to the different JavaScript modes. This is especially true for [[JavaScript]], where the [[js-mode]] shipped with the latest Emacs is completely different from the other widely used [[js2-mode]] by Yegge. [[User:Damd|Damd]] 18:20, 25 March 2012 (EEST)

::Hm, good point about disambiguation... I still like the idea of using "titles" vs "commands", though. E.g. a [[Java]] page describing the built-in support (Java Mode) and then linking to articles on related packages (JDEE, etc) and why you might consider them instead. [[User:GregLucas|GregLucas]] 19:32, 25 March 2012 (EEST)

:::How would we handle e.g. [[Haskell]]? Emacs doesn't ship with any Haskell mode as far as I know... [[User:Damd|damd]] 19:58, 25 March 2012 (EEST)

::::Not ship, but a haskell-mode definitely exists and is in use...--[[Special:Contributions/84.192.109.230|84.192.109.230]] 18:33, 11 January 2013 (EET)

== Template for mode-with-github-source pages? ==

Can Wikimedia do page templates? I'm sure the answer is yes. [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 23:07, 24 March 2012 (EET)

== Issues ==
* The "Editing Help" link goes to a virgin page, not the full help page.
* Add [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Footnotes Mediawiki Cite extension] to enable footnotes.
* Add [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category#Visualizing_category_tree Category Tree extension] to explore various categories like [[:Category:Programming languages]].

== Syntax highlighting ==

Could we install a MediaWiki plugin which lets us do proper syntax highlighting of different languages? [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi SyntaxHighlight GeSHi] looks like a good alternative. [[User:Damd|damd]] 20:07, 25 March 2012 (EEST)

:I've already installed it, but it doesn't seem to work properly (the fonts seem terribly small) and it doesn't support Emacs Lisp. [[User:Bozhidar|Bozhidar]] 20:24, 26 March 2012 (EEST)

::Are you sure the font size is not because of your web browser settings? They look just fine when I try it. About the Elisp support, we can still use just "lisp" until someone gets around to writing a version for Elisp. [[User:Damd|damd]] 18:44, 31 March 2012 (EEST)

::: I also found font size in the code snippets are inconveniently low. I dont have any special settings for my browser. I am on recent firefox. [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 18:52, 31 March 2012 (EEST)

::::We could customize the CSS for the syntax highlighting plugin, but first let's make sure it's actually something in the CSS that causes this.
::::<pre>This is just an ordinary PRE element.</pre>
::::<syntaxhighlight lang="html4strict">This is a PRE element generated by the syntax highlighting plugin.</syntaxhighlight>
::::Is the font in both examples too tiny? If so, I suggest you check your browser settings. You can configure this in the "Content" section of Firefox's settings. [[User:Damd|damd]] 19:13, 1 April 2012 (EEST)
::::: I only find the second one small not the both. I started with 'firefox -safe-mode' still the same. It seems its general problem with Geshi see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5354968/changing-the-font-size-of-code-formatted-by-syntaxhighlight-geshi-in-mediawiki [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 20:25, 1 April 2012 (EEST)

==fails to create thumbnails==
I think some adminstative settings must be made in order to produce thumbnails of the pictures automatically. Can anyone do this .? check out [[Dictem]] to see what I am talking about. [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 16:21, 31 March 2012 (EEST)
: found this link, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuration_settings#Thumbnail_settings [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 16:24, 31 March 2012 (EEST)
:: another link, http://www.mwusers.com/forums/showthread.php?1334-Resized-thumbnail-images-not-displaying Feel free to delete these links [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 16:28, 31 March 2012 (EEST)

:I see that on <nowiki>[[File:Screenshot-dictem-buffer.jpg]]</nowiki>, the main image is not displayed. The "Full resolution" link shows a valid image. By the way, this type of question might be appropriate for [https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/wikemacs Google Groups:WikEmacs]. [[User:Xophist|Xophist]] 21:31, 1 April 2012 (EEST)

== needed plugins ==

* cite.php is needed to show references using <nowiki><ref> </ref></nowiki> for example http://wikemacs.org/wiki/Battery#How_to_show_battery_status_only_on_laptop.3F has ref, but not working.?

:I had this problem when getting Cite_web set up on en.swpat.org. If I look into how I got it working, could it be fixed here too? [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] 15:31, 29 January 2013 (EET)

== Closing down? But I just got here! ==

I just saw the Slashdot story about WikiEmacs closing down. Pity. A MediaWiki wiki about Emacs sounds great. I find MediaWiki sites much easier to navigate and I think they're easier to maintain/organise.

Maybe WikiEmacs' problem was just that it never got publicity? [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] 15:21, 29 January 2013 (EET)

: I fully agree with Ciaran. I too am a newcomer. There are probably many more like me who would be willing to help out if only they knew this site existed. This wiki needs better publicity and cheerleading. We should have special event drives for porting and properly formatting content from the old Emacs wiki, in addition to ones promoting original article creation. A community needs to be established and articles need to be written. One way to get the word out is to contact administrators of various major Emacs projects and ask that they start an article on their project and add a link to WikEmacs in their helpful links section. If they do not want to help, no problem. However, I think many would, and it would let them know about the site's existence as a bonus so word of mouth would start to spread.

: I find the style used on the old Emacs wiki to be horrendous to say the least. Is it an unstructured discussion forum? A knowledgebase of all things Emacs? A tips and tricks guide to hacking functionality that should be built into Emacs? Changing the tide of confusion on that site would likely be more trouble than it is worth. A new wiki is needed. I myself pledge to port over one article from the old Emacs wiki a week if that means this site will stay online. --[[User:Holocronweaver|Holocronweaver]] 17:37, 3 February 2013 (EET)

:: Take a look at this: [http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BackwardKillLine BackwardKillLine on emacswiki]. If just reading this article does not inspire you to to keep WikEmacs open, nothing will I'm afraid. --[[User:Holocronweaver|Holocronweaver]] 22:30, 22 February 2013 (EET)

== WikEmacs staying open? Great! ==

Glad to hear it's not closing. Anything we (new contributors) should know? Is anything changing? [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 09:51, 20 April 2013 (EDT)
: Hello, I am the new caretaker of WikEmacs. No major changes have been made. This will continue to be a site by and for the users, so I welcome all input for suggested changes. As the site expands and users return, we will likely need to revisit the control structure and possibly modify the site rules. For now I would like to focus on growing the wiki. --[[User:Holocronweaver|Holocronweaver]] ([[User talk:Holocronweaver|talk]]) 15:09, 22 April 2013 (EDT)

== Keeping the licence situation clear and clean ==

Just noting the current situation...

* emacswiki.org is published under multiple licences, including GPLv2, GFDL (no version specified), CC-sa, and their own [http://www.emacswiki.org/OLD simple permissive licence].
* The GNU Emacs manual is published under GFDLv1.3+
* Existing WikEmacs texts are under GFDLv1.3+

For emacswiki.org, we could either ask them to specify their version(s) of GFDL, or we could use their text under their simple permissive licence. If we do the latter, we could include a mention of their copyright notice either in the default copyright notice at the bottom of all WikEmacs pages, or we could create a template "''This page includes text from emacswiki.org, used under [http://www.emacswiki.org/OLD this licence]''".

For the GNU Emacs manual, if we're going to continue using GFDLv1.3+, then we don't have to do anything. But if we want to switch to the dual-licence model used by Wikipedia (and accepted by Stallman), then whenever we copy text from the manual, we'd have to put a template on those pages to say that those pages are only available under GFDLv1.3+ (and not CC-sa).

For text by WikEmacs contributors, we could continue to license it under GFDLv1.3+, or we could say that from now on, contributions are under the Wikipedia-style dual-licence (GFDLv1.3+ and CC-sa). This wouldn't change much but it would give us more options in the future if we do encounter problems.

I'll have to think for a while before having any recommendations, and there's currently nothing messy or problematic, but just wanted to note the situation early on in case anyone wants to make suggestions. I have experience with licensing issues. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 07:02, 23 April 2013 (EDT)

: I have spent some time thinking on this, and your suggestion of asking emacswiki.org to clarify their version of GFDL appears to be simplest. That way WikEmacs could maintain its current GFDLv1.3+ license and no ugly licensing notices would be necessary when porting content from emacswiki.org, assuming thes choose GFDLv1.3+. In the event they choose a different version of GFDL, is it possible to port old versions of the license to new versions so we could use the material under GFDL1.3+? --[[User:Holocronweaver|Holocronweaver]] ([[User talk:Holocronweaver|talk]]) 13:30, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

::Ok, I've thought through the scenarios now. The current Wikemacs licence notice is fine: if wikemacs contains original content plus emacswiki content plus GNU manual content plus Wikipedia content, it will always be true that the recipient can distribute under GFDL v1.3 or any later version. (emacswiki doesn't textually say "v1.3+" but all their pages are also under a [http://www.emacswiki.org/OLD do what you want, just preserve our copyright notice] licence, so GFDL version ambiguities can be ignored.) So nothing has to be changed in the footer.

::The two other issues are the copyright details, and the licence of original contributions.

::Copyright details. If we include material from the manual/wikipedia/emacswiki, then we have to mention this somewhere (otherwise we'd be claiming to own stuff we copied from them). At a minimum, we have to put a general statement in [[WikEmacs:Copyrights]] to say "''Some pages incorporate text from XYZ, received under <copy of their licence notice>''".

::Legally, that's all that's necessary. But, by lacking precision it leads to certain inconveniences. For example, if someone wants to copy an article from here that contains just original content, they should be able to include just a single line "''copyright 2013 Wikemacs''", but if there's no way to see that it's original content then that person will have to include all the "''this may contain...''" statements from [[WikEmacs:Copyrights]]. Or if there's a problem later (such as someone adding non-free content to emacswiki, and us copying it over), we're left with a mess not knowing what pages have to be checked/reverted.

::(This reminds me that the copyright situation of my own wiki is not a shining example, but that's less problematic since all material is original content.)

::So, for keeping track of copyrights, nothing is ''required'' and complexity just makes people less likely to do it, so it's just a matter of picking the low hanging fruit. I see four possibilities:
::# Mention "''from XYZ''" in the edit summary. Drawback: if someone forgot to do this, there's no way to go back later and put it into the edit summary, and, the only way to search all edit summaries is by going to each page... tedious.
::# Mention it on the page. This is what wikipedia does. Make a template so that editors can add <nowiki>{{</nowiki>copyright manual}} to the bottom of the page or in the "References" section to add one sentence "''This page incorporates bla bla see [[WikEmacs:Copyrights]]''".
::# Same, but put it at the top of the Talk: page.
::# Make a page for listing which pages contain substantial amounts of material from what sources.
::The last two look nice and clean but that's also a drawback since if reader-contributors don't see how copyright info is noted, they won't realise that they should also make a note when they add third-party content to a page. The second solution adds a bit of mess to the page, but it works well with the wiki model of learn-by-copying.

::If in doubt, I'd go with the second option. (Copying Wikipedia is usually a safe move.) We can always change at a later stage.

::The last thing is the licence of new contributions (i.e. what should the notice under the edit box say "''all contributions to WikEmacs are considered to be released under...''"). My usual reflex is to use GNU whatever, but Stallman did give Wikipedia the green light to move to a dual GFDL + CC-by-sa for original contributions. I can't remember all the problems that motivated Wikipedia to migrate, but I think there were some issues like GFDL's requirement to include a copy of the licence when distributing covered works (so when you print a 2-page article, you have to add the 10 pages of the licence). Copying Wikipedia's approach probably has some practical advantages for people re-using Wikemacs material, and it allows people to copy material from Wikemacs into Wikipedia (while still being able to copy wikemacs material into the GNU manuals etc.). So for new contributions, a plain GFDLv1.3+ is fine, but the Wikipedia model is probably better. This wouldn't change the footer - GFDL would still be our primary licence since some pages would combine original content (GFDL+CC-by-sa) with content from the GNU manual (GFDL only) and the combination could only be distributed under GFDL, not CC-by-sa.

::It would also be a good idea for the notice under the edit box to tell people "''If you incorporate material from the GNU manual, please include <nowiki>{{</nowiki>copyright manual}} at the end of the page''", and similar for emacswiki and Wikipedia.

::Hope that helps. I'll be back at the end of June. None of this is urgent anyway. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 07:27, 3 June 2013 (EDT)

== Which emacswiki.org topics to work on? ==

So, for each of the useful pages on emacswiki.org, we should make our own pages for those topics and incorporate the knowledge that's in the emacswiki.org pages, but how do we make a list of the useful emacswiki.org pages?

Does the site have any equivalents to MediaWiki's pages:

* [[Special:LongPages]]
* [[Special:MostLinkedPages]]
* [[Special:MostRevisions]]

? (But IMO we should take a decision on the licence before doing a lot of work.) [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 12:27, 24 April 2013 (EDT)

:If not, I wonder if search engines could help us approximate the "value" of each page?

:* https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aemacswiki.org

:Hmm. I'd take that as a no. Looks like a random selection. Any other ideas?

:Finding the pages with the most revisions shouldn't be too hard. Just involves a script downloading the history of [http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/?action=printable-index each page] and sorting by length. That might give an indication of the good pages.

:The [http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/emacswiki.org info on alexa.com] isn't too solid, but gives some hints about what people look for. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 11:19, 3 June 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Main Page

2013-06-03T12:14:15Z

Ciaran: /* Keeping the licence situation clear and clean */ licence footer, copyright details, and licence of original contributions

User talk:Ciaran

2013-06-03T11:37:22Z

Ciaran: /* Thanks */ :Hey, :I've written a bit more now on the copyright aspects.[http://wikemacs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=prev&oldid=4621] A bit long-winded, but it's the sort of thing you have to think about thoroughly once, and then you can usu

=Thanks=
Hey Ciaran. WikEmacs maintainer here. Just want to thank you for your contributions to the wiki, including helping clean up vandalism. I commented on your discussion about licenses on the front page. Check it out when you get a chance.
See you around. =)
--[[User:Holocronweaver|Holocronweaver]] ([[User talk:Holocronweaver|talk]]) 21:42, 31 May 2013 (EDT)

:Hey,
:I've written a bit more now on the copyright aspects.[http://wikemacs.org/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=prev&oldid=4621] A bit long-winded, but it's the sort of thing you have to think about thoroughly once, and then you can usually forget about it. (I should really re-publish that comment as a blog entry somewhere.)
:I'm disappearing now, but it's just temporary. I have exams every January, June and August so I do my best to tear myself away from editing wikis during those months. See you in July! [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 07:37, 3 June 2013 (EDT)

Keyboard macros

2013-06-03T11:33:03Z

Ciaran: UndoVANDALISM revision 4620 by 198.2.208.35 (talk)

{{Manual|emacs|Basic-Keyboard-Macro|Basic Keyboard Macro}}

'''Keyboard macros''' can be used to automate or repeat tedious editing tasks in Emacs.

==Example usage==
Consider the standard <code>*scratch*</code> buffer:

<pre>
;; This buffer is for notes you don't want to save, and for Lisp evaluation.
;; If you want to create a file, visit that file with C-x C-f,
;; then enter the text in that file's own buffer.
</pre>

Suppose you want to remove the first occurrence of the letter "a" on every row in that piece of text. You could write a [[regular expression]] to do the job, but let's assume you want to use a keyboard macro this time.

# Make sure [[point]] is at the start of the buffer.
# Hit <code>C-x (</code> to start recording your macro. '''Note:''' If you hit <code>C-g</code> or if an error occurs, your keyboard macro recording will stop.
# Hit <code>C-s</code> followed by <code>a</code> to find the first "a". Now, point is right after the first "a" in the text.
# Hit backspace to delete that "a".

The first occurrence of "a" of the first line has been deleted. Let's move point to the beginning of the next line and then stop recording.

<ol start="5">
<li>Hit <code>C-e C-f</code> to move point to the beginning of the next line.</li>
<li>Hit <code>C-x )</code> to finish the recording of our macro.</li>
</ol>

The macro you have just recorded performs the operation of removing the first occurrence of "a" it can find and then moving point to the next line.

<ol start="7">
<li>Hit <code>C-x e</code> once to call that macro.</li>
<li>Continue hitting <code>e</code> to call it several times. Hit any other key to get out of the macro repetition.</li>
</ol>

==Saving macros==
{{Manual|emacs|Save-Keyboard-Macro|Save Keyboard Macro}}

===Binding to a key===
To bind a keyboard macro to a key use <code>C-x C-k b</code>. To avoid problems caused by overriding existing bindings, the key sequences <code>C-x C-k 0</code> through <code>C-x C-k 9</code> and <code>C-x C-k A</code> through <code>C-x C-k Z</code> are reserved for your own keyboard macro bindings. You can, however, bind a keyboard macro to whatever you like.

==Variables==

Variables can be stored in lisp or in [[registers]]. Here's an example using lisp:

<pre>
[M-: (setq x 1)]
<F3>
Line number [C-u M-: x]
[M-: (setq x (+ x 1))]
<F4>
</pre>

Now execute the macro four times with the command <code>C-x e e e e</code> and you get:

line number 1<br />
line number 2<br />
line number 3<br />
line number 4

Talk:Main Page

2013-06-03T11:27:29Z

Ciaran: /* Keeping the licence situation clear and clean */ licence footer, copyright details, and licence of original contributions

== IMPORTANT: Offline discussion ==

There is a Google group for discussion of the site: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/wikemacs so we should probably favor posting there. [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 16:16, 26 March 2012 (EEST)

== IMPORTANT: Content Quality guidelines ==
I think before flame wars and fights among members, we should form
proper/strict guide lines for each aspect of the site. [http://depuypinnaclelawsuit.webnode.com/ DePuy Pinnacle Lawsuit] Wikipedia has very strict
rules about that., even their bots can tell the content quality of a
page. we can create articles in "WikEmacs" Namespace. [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 23:57, 1 April 2012 (EEST)

:Wikipedia has lots of rules today, but it started with very few rules and they invented the rules as they became necessary. It's impossible to predict what problems will be encountered. I'd suggest that rules only be made when it becomes clear that one is necessary. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] 15:24, 29 January 2013 (EET)

== Structure ==
I would like to structure the Main Page in boxes like here [http://www.webos-internals.org] the Featured Article/Project. Any objections?
And maybe [[User:Bozhidar]] should write some lines about the relation to the "old" EmacsWiki?--[[User:Kenda|Kenda]] 19:58, 24 March 2012 (EET)

This seems like a good idea. Might help us utilize better the screen estate. As for the relation to the EmacsWiki - it is more or less non-existing. We have the permission from Alex (kensanata) to migrate any content we choose to, but they won't be supporting us in any way. [[User:Bozhidar|Bozhidar]] 20:28, 26 March 2012 (EEST)

== Markup Conventions==

=== Wikipedia linking convention ===

Could/should we have a convention for formatting and placement of wikipedia links on pages? [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 22:37, 24 March 2012 (EET)

=== EmacsWiki linking convention ===

Similar question to Wikipedia wrt EmacsWiki [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 23:06, 24 March 2012 (EET)

== Describing Modes and Packages ==

=== Naming Conventions ===

I'd like to suggest *not* suffixing (links to) modes with "-mode". Thus: "org" not "org-mode". For consistency I've been adding links titled "org-mode" until now, since that one was already created when I started. [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 22:09, 24 March 2012 (EET)

:Agreed, let's use the "friendly" name of a package. I'd say "Org", "Gnus", "YASnippet", etc. [[User:GregLucas|GregLucas]]

:I actually disagree. E.g. [[Java]] could be a page describing the different Java capabilities of Emacs, with links to the different JavaScript modes. This is especially true for [[JavaScript]], where the [[js-mode]] shipped with the latest Emacs is completely different from the other widely used [[js2-mode]] by Yegge. [[User:Damd|Damd]] 18:20, 25 March 2012 (EEST)

::Hm, good point about disambiguation... I still like the idea of using "titles" vs "commands", though. E.g. a [[Java]] page describing the built-in support (Java Mode) and then linking to articles on related packages (JDEE, etc) and why you might consider them instead. [[User:GregLucas|GregLucas]] 19:32, 25 March 2012 (EEST)

:::How would we handle e.g. [[Haskell]]? Emacs doesn't ship with any Haskell mode as far as I know... [[User:Damd|damd]] 19:58, 25 March 2012 (EEST)

::::Not ship, but a haskell-mode definitely exists and is in use...--[[Special:Contributions/84.192.109.230|84.192.109.230]] 18:33, 11 January 2013 (EET)

== Template for mode-with-github-source pages? ==

Can Wikimedia do page templates? I'm sure the answer is yes. [[User:PhilHudson|PhilHudson]] 23:07, 24 March 2012 (EET)

== Issues ==
* The "Editing Help" link goes to a virgin page, not the full help page.
* Add [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Footnotes Mediawiki Cite extension] to enable footnotes.
* Add [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category#Visualizing_category_tree Category Tree extension] to explore various categories like [[:Category:Programming languages]].

== Syntax highlighting ==

Could we install a MediaWiki plugin which lets us do proper syntax highlighting of different languages? [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi SyntaxHighlight GeSHi] looks like a good alternative. [[User:Damd|damd]] 20:07, 25 March 2012 (EEST)

:I've already installed it, but it doesn't seem to work properly (the fonts seem terribly small) and it doesn't support Emacs Lisp. [[User:Bozhidar|Bozhidar]] 20:24, 26 March 2012 (EEST)

::Are you sure the font size is not because of your web browser settings? They look just fine when I try it. About the Elisp support, we can still use just "lisp" until someone gets around to writing a version for Elisp. [[User:Damd|damd]] 18:44, 31 March 2012 (EEST)

::: I also found font size in the code snippets are inconveniently low. I dont have any special settings for my browser. I am on recent firefox. [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 18:52, 31 March 2012 (EEST)

::::We could customize the CSS for the syntax highlighting plugin, but first let's make sure it's actually something in the CSS that causes this.
::::<pre>This is just an ordinary PRE element.</pre>
::::<syntaxhighlight lang="html4strict">This is a PRE element generated by the syntax highlighting plugin.</syntaxhighlight>
::::Is the font in both examples too tiny? If so, I suggest you check your browser settings. You can configure this in the "Content" section of Firefox's settings. [[User:Damd|damd]] 19:13, 1 April 2012 (EEST)
::::: I only find the second one small not the both. I started with 'firefox -safe-mode' still the same. It seems its general problem with Geshi see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5354968/changing-the-font-size-of-code-formatted-by-syntaxhighlight-geshi-in-mediawiki [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 20:25, 1 April 2012 (EEST)

==fails to create thumbnails==
I think some adminstative settings must be made in order to produce thumbnails of the pictures automatically. Can anyone do this .? check out [[Dictem]] to see what I am talking about. [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 16:21, 31 March 2012 (EEST)
: found this link, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Configuration_settings#Thumbnail_settings [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 16:24, 31 March 2012 (EEST)
:: another link, http://www.mwusers.com/forums/showthread.php?1334-Resized-thumbnail-images-not-displaying Feel free to delete these links [[User:Kindahero|Kindahero]] 16:28, 31 March 2012 (EEST)

:I see that on <nowiki>[[File:Screenshot-dictem-buffer.jpg]]</nowiki>, the main image is not displayed. The "Full resolution" link shows a valid image. By the way, this type of question might be appropriate for [https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/wikemacs Google Groups:WikEmacs]. [[User:Xophist|Xophist]] 21:31, 1 April 2012 (EEST)

== needed plugins ==

* cite.php is needed to show references using <nowiki><ref> </ref></nowiki> for example http://wikemacs.org/wiki/Battery#How_to_show_battery_status_only_on_laptop.3F has ref, but not working.?

:I had this problem when getting Cite_web set up on en.swpat.org. If I look into how I got it working, could it be fixed here too? [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] 15:31, 29 January 2013 (EET)

== Closing down? But I just got here! ==

I just saw the Slashdot story about WikiEmacs closing down. Pity. A MediaWiki wiki about Emacs sounds great. I find MediaWiki sites much easier to navigate and I think they're easier to maintain/organise.

Maybe WikiEmacs' problem was just that it never got publicity? [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] 15:21, 29 January 2013 (EET)

: I fully agree with Ciaran. I too am a newcomer. There are probably many more like me who would be willing to help out if only they knew this site existed. This wiki needs better publicity and cheerleading. We should have special event drives for porting and properly formatting content from the old Emacs wiki, in addition to ones promoting original article creation. A community needs to be established and articles need to be written. One way to get the word out is to contact administrators of various major Emacs projects and ask that they start an article on their project and add a link to WikEmacs in their helpful links section. If they do not want to help, no problem. However, I think many would, and it would let them know about the site's existence as a bonus so word of mouth would start to spread.

: I find the style used on the old Emacs wiki to be horrendous to say the least. Is it an unstructured discussion forum? A knowledgebase of all things Emacs? A tips and tricks guide to hacking functionality that should be built into Emacs? Changing the tide of confusion on that site would likely be more trouble than it is worth. A new wiki is needed. I myself pledge to port over one article from the old Emacs wiki a week if that means this site will stay online. --[[User:Holocronweaver|Holocronweaver]] 17:37, 3 February 2013 (EET)

:: Take a look at this: [http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BackwardKillLine BackwardKillLine on emacswiki]. If just reading this article does not inspire you to to keep WikEmacs open, nothing will I'm afraid. --[[User:Holocronweaver|Holocronweaver]] 22:30, 22 February 2013 (EET)

== WikEmacs staying open? Great! ==

Glad to hear it's not closing. Anything we (new contributors) should know? Is anything changing? [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 09:51, 20 April 2013 (EDT)
: Hello, I am the new caretaker of WikEmacs. No major changes have been made. This will continue to be a site by and for the users, so I welcome all input for suggested changes. As the site expands and users return, we will likely need to revisit the control structure and possibly modify the site rules. For now I would like to focus on growing the wiki. --[[User:Holocronweaver|Holocronweaver]] ([[User talk:Holocronweaver|talk]]) 15:09, 22 April 2013 (EDT)

== Keeping the licence situation clear and clean ==

Just noting the current situation...

* emacswiki.org is published under multiple licences, including GPLv2, GFDL (no version specified), CC-sa, and their own [http://www.emacswiki.org/OLD simple permissive licence].
* The GNU Emacs manual is published under GFDLv1.3+
* Existing WikEmacs texts are under GFDLv1.3+

For emacswiki.org, we could either ask them to specify their version(s) of GFDL, or we could use their text under their simple permissive licence. If we do the latter, we could include a mention of their copyright notice either in the default copyright notice at the bottom of all WikEmacs pages, or we could create a template "''This page includes text from emacswiki.org, used under [http://www.emacswiki.org/OLD this licence]''".

For the GNU Emacs manual, if we're going to continue using GFDLv1.3+, then we don't have to do anything. But if we want to switch to the dual-licence model used by Wikipedia (and accepted by Stallman), then whenever we copy text from the manual, we'd have to put a template on those pages to say that those pages are only available under GFDLv1.3+ (and not CC-sa).

For text by WikEmacs contributors, we could continue to license it under GFDLv1.3+, or we could say that from now on, contributions are under the Wikipedia-style dual-licence (GFDLv1.3+ and CC-sa). This wouldn't change much but it would give us more options in the future if we do encounter problems.

I'll have to think for a while before having any recommendations, and there's currently nothing messy or problematic, but just wanted to note the situation early on in case anyone wants to make suggestions. I have experience with licensing issues. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 07:02, 23 April 2013 (EDT)

: I have spent some time thinking on this, and your suggestion of asking emacswiki.org to clarify their version of GFDL appears to be simplest. That way WikEmacs could maintain its current GFDLv1.3+ license and no ugly licensing notices would be necessary when porting content from emacswiki.org, assuming thes choose GFDLv1.3+. In the event they choose a different version of GFDL, is it possible to port old versions of the license to new versions so we could use the material under GFDL1.3+? --[[User:Holocronweaver|Holocronweaver]] ([[User talk:Holocronweaver|talk]]) 13:30, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

::Ok, I've thought through the scenarios now. The current Wikemacs licence notice is fine: if wikemacs contains original content plus emacswiki content plus GNU manual content plus Wikipedia content, it will always be true that the recipient can distribute under GFDL v1.3 or any later version. (emacswiki doesn't textually say "v1.3+" but all their pages are also under a [http://www.emacswiki.org/OLD do what you want, just preserve our copyright notice] licence, so GFDL version ambiguities can be ignored.) So nothing has to be changed in the footer.

::The two other issues are the copyright details, and the licence of original contributions.

::Copyright details. If we include material from the manual/wikipedia/emacswiki, then we have to mention this somewhere (otherwise we'd be claiming to own stuff we copied from them). At a minimum, we have to put a general statement in [[WikEmacs:Copyrights]] to say "''Some pages incorporate text from XYZ, received under <copy of their licence notice>''".

::Legally, that's all that's necessary. But, by lacking precision it leads to certain inconveniences. For example, if someone wants to copy an article from here that contains just original content, they should be able to include just a single line "''copyright 2013 Wikemacs''", but if there's no way to see that it's original content then that person will have to include all the "''this may contain...''" statements from [[WikEmacs:Copyrights]]. Or if there's a problem later (such as someone adding non-free content to emacswiki, and us copying it over), we're left with a mess not knowing what pages have to be checked/reverted.

::(This reminds me that the copyright situation of my own wiki is not a shining example, but that's less problematic since all material is original content.)

::So, for keeping track of copyrights, nothing is required and complexity just makes people less likely to do it, so it's just a matter of looking for simple things. I see four possibilities:
::# Mention "''from XYZ''" in the edit summary. Drawback: if someone forgot to do this, there's no way to go back later and put it into the edit summary, and, the only way to search all edit summaries is by going to each page... tedious.
::# Mention it on the page. This is what wikipedia does. Make a template so that editors can add <nowiki>{{</nowiki>copyright manual}} to the bottom of the page or in the "References" section to add one sentence "''This page incorporates bla bla see [[WikEmacs:Copyrights]]''".
::# Same, but put it at the top of the Talk: page.
::# Make a page for listing which pages contain substantial amounts of material from what sources.
::The last two look nice and clean but that's also a drawback since if reader-contributors don't see how copyright info is noted, they won't realise that they should also make a note when they add third-party content to a page. The second solution adds a bit of mess to the page, but it works well with the wiki model of learn-by-copying.

::If in doubt, I'd go with the second option. (Copying Wikipedia is usually a safe move.) We can always change at a later stage.

::The last thing is the licence of new contributions (i.e. what should the notice under the edit box say "''all contributions to WikEmacs are considered to be released under...''"). My usual reflex is to use GNU whatever, but Stallman did give Wikipedia the green light to move to a dual GFDL + CC-by-sa for original contributions. I can't remember all the problems that motivated Wikipedia to migrate, but I think there were some issues like GFDL's requirement to include a copy of the licence when distributing covered works (so when you print a 2-page article, you have to add the 10 pages of the licence). Copying Wikipedia's approach probably has some practical advantages for people re-using Wikemacs material, and it allows people to copy material from Wikemacs into Wikipedia (as well as into the GNU manuals etc.). So for new contributions, a plain GFDLv1.3+ is fine, but I the Wikipedia model is probably better. This wouldn't change the footer - GFDL would still be our primary licence since some pages would combine original content (GFDL+CC-by-sa) with content from the GNU manual (GFDL only) and the combination could only be distributed under GFDL, not CC-by-sa.

::It would also be a good idea for the notice under the edit box to tell people "''If you incorporate material from the GNU manual, please include <nowiki>{{</nowiki>copyright manual}} at the end of the page''", and same for emacswiki and Wikipedia.

::Hope that helps. I'll be back at the end of June. None of this is urgent anyway. [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 07:27, 3 June 2013 (EDT)

== Which emacswiki.org topics to work on? ==

So, for each of the useful pages on emacswiki.org, we should make our own pages for those topics and incorporate the knowledge that's in the emacswiki.org pages, but how do we make a list of the useful emacswiki.org pages?

Does the site have any equivalents to MediaWiki's pages:

* [[Special:LongPages]]
* [[Special:MostLinkedPages]]
* [[Special:MostRevisions]]

? (But IMO we should take a decision on the licence before doing a lot of work.) [[User:Ciaran|Ciaran]] ([[User talk:Ciaran|talk]]) 12:27, 24 April 2013 (EDT)

Keyboard macros

2013-06-02T22:59:18Z

Ciaran: UndoVANDALISM revision 4618 by 175.44.14.93 (talk)

User:Robyn2867

2013-05-22T23:58:27Z

Ciaran: {{delete|all edits were spam}}

Keyboard macros

2013-05-22T09:07:53Z

Ciaran: Undo SPAM revision 4586 by 216.152.251.6 (talk)

User:Ygbohhj

2013-05-22T09:07:20Z

Ciaran: {{delete|nonsense vandalism}}

User:Fyjlczovk

2013-05-21T10:35:50Z